GoT - A Dance with Dragons - SPOILER SPOILER SPOILERS!

[penk]

This post is ALL ABOUT TALKING ABOUT THE SERiES - You really don't want to read this if you're reading the series now, and have NOT FINISHED the A Dance with Dragons.

I absolutely want to yammer and chat about this - so here's the LJ-CUT.

Seriously, dont' click through, spoilers are RIGHT on the other side of the cut!



Okay, so i just finished reading A Dance with Dragons. I have to agree with rintraroars - it's DEPRESSING! But no more than the other books - the descent into anarchy continues - but we start to find out who is behind it all! Wow!

But, I have some questions - maybe folks can help me out...

1) How did Arya actually kill the insurer? There's a hint that she swapped coins with the sea captain, the captain met with the insurer, and he dropped dead of a heart attack - which rings a bell in my head about something earlier, but I can't see how that worked.

2) JON? REALLY?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (This is the first time in... i don't know how many years - that I actually started crying reading a book. Wow)

3) Robert Strong - who is he? Undead? Gregor Clegane? (though that would be tricky since The Mountain's head is in Dorne, no?)

4) Sandor Clegane - The Hound - Brienne tells Jaime that she has found Sansa, but she needs Jaime to come alone to see her, or else the Hound will kill her. But previously, we heard the Hound was dead, and Sansa's whereabouts unknown. Also, wasn't brienne being hung last time we heard from her? This sort of stuff makes me hold out hope for Jon.

5) So, is Stannis really dead? The whole Winterfell situation is a mess (even more now - we dn't know who holds what where).

6) I get uncomfortable every time Theon talks about how hard it is to eat with all hsi broken teeth. Sheesh that's hard to read.

7) This one I lost track of somewhere. Where is Rickon?

I think the last line of the book should have been "Winter is here."

So, discuss!

Comments

[mrf-arch.livejournal.com]

1) I presume the coin she swapped was coated in contact poison. Or possibly was hollow, with poison inside it - the captain would not be tempted to bite the coins to see if they're real, since they are his coins. The insurer might, though...

2) Yeah. My revised theory is that there's only going to be one living Stark when the series is over. Though I supposed technically Jon is a Snow, not a Stark. But still.

3) Undead almost surely - the implication being that Qwyburn (sp?) has been practicing some nasty necromancy in the basement. I think yes, Clegane's head is missing. But his body and some other head would be entertaining. I presume we'll find out eventually, and it'll be someone who was a major character before. Lord Tywin's corpse was pretty fresh...

4) Possibly, though I think Jon really is toast.

5) I'm guessing not, via some previously engineered but conveniently un-shown Melisandre of Ashai magic.

6) Yah. Although the Boltons are, at this point, just friggin' over the top. How psychopathic can you be and still manage to run your fiefdom?

7) No idea. :-)

[penk.livejournal.com]

AHA! On #1 your'e absolutely right. GRRM made a point specifically of noting that the insurer ALWAYS bites the coins. Bravo! I had missed that point.

Qyburn was noted, and yeah, he's been doing Nasty Stuff. Okay, I can get that RObert Strong is the Mountain. Creeeeeeeeepy.

And yeah, the Boltons are... wow. But, I mean, they'e been using the standard of "The Flayed Man" and their home is called The Dreadfort - these are not neighbors I'd like to get chummy with!

Though at this point, everyone's pretty icky.

[dr-memory.livejournal.com]

1. I'm not 100% clear on this either; I mean to go back and re-read that section.

2. No way. The whole opening prelude chapter was all about hammering home the point that skinchangers have (more or less literally) nine lives, and can even put their consciousness into an animal when they can no longer fully resurrect themselves. Jon's tenure as Night's Commander is probably over, but he'll be kicking around in one form or another for a while.

3. Strong is FrankenGregor. Remember in who's "care" Gregor spent the last several agonizing weeks of his life? And now he's Tommen's guard and Cersei's champion. This'll end well, I'm sure.

4. There's some speculation that Sandor may be still alive (possibly in the care of the monks), but I doubt it has anything to do with Brienne and Jaime. Brienne is just leading him to meet Zombie Cat.

5. Damned if I know. I'd like to think that Martin wouldn't end the book with two "deaths" that are both fake-outs, and if one of Jon and Stannis are dead it seems likely that it'd be Stannis. But nothing about Ramsey's letter adds up: the World's Most Badass Chartered Accountant (AKA the dude from the Iron Bank) showed up in time to warn Stannis about the Karstarks, and the Manderlys were presumably just waiting for the right moment to start killing Boltons and Freys openly on top of covertly. Presumably he was at least telling the truth about capturing Mance Rayder, but everything else is clearly up for grabs.

6. Ramsey was such a pleasant fellow, eh?

7. Away somewhere with Asha the wildling and his direwolf. Davos seems to be heading off after them, but at this point I'm assuming that Rickon is the biggest red herring in the entire series. :)

[penk.livejournal.com]

I don't buy that Jon is not dead due to the skinchangers. He isn't one per se - the skinchangers (in the free folk) could willingly jump from person to animal (and in Bran's case, to another person). Jon just was able to sometimes feel Ghost and had a kinship with him, and sometimes dreamed - but wasn't a skinchanger.

We've already established that the R'Hllor can cheat death - witness Beric Dondarrion - who has been slain half a dozen times, and the red god brings him back.

I hadn't considered Brienne and Zombie Cat. Brienne is acting more 'alive' than Catelynn was - so I don't think she's undead... but the whole mystery of Catelynn and what's happened to her and all that is really interesting.

[etherial.livejournal.com]

The prelude chapter with SixSkins made it quite clear it takes training. Ned's family are all untrained Skinchangers.

[rintrahroars.livejournal.com]

Just a few thoughts....

1. Yes, a poisoned coin. That was my thinking on that.
2. I think not. Jon Snow needed to "die" to shrug off the mantle of responsibility that came of being Lord Commander of the Watch. There is that theory that Lyanna Stark + Rhaegar Targaryen = Jon Snow, and why would they go that far to set it up just to kill him for good in this book? Nah. Besides, Dany + Jon would be interesting. And Unsullied would be good recruits for wearing the black.... *ahem*
3. FrankenGregor. Body of The Mountain. Head of ??? Joffrey? Tywin? Ewww.
4. NO clue. My brain went to "That's not Brienne" when I read that.
5. I think Melisandre stayed at The Wall to protect Jon. We'll see how that pans out, but she may be instrumental in ensuring Jon doesn't actually die. Stannis may be expendable at this point. He's getting dull...
6. Me too. Uugh. His storyline could end anytime and I'd be happy.
7. I've been waiting for him to show up. I don't see him serving the plot in any major way. Just an ace up Martin's sleeve?

I have other questions. Like, how is Jorah Monmount going to get to The Wall? You know that has to happen, right? And is it just me, or does it look like Arya may get her wish and get sent to King's Landing to take another name off that list? Is the Hound really dead, or is his helm haunted with his ghost? I'm also getting a little tired of Dany being stupid and lovesick. Can she please forward the plot faster? Can she please send dragons to eat the entirety of the Dreadfort and its heirs? The maiming/enslavement/flaying thing needs to be done. And why does it seem The Citadel has tried to turn everyone's minds from magic/dragons/the children/giants, etc? What is the significance of this?

And now I will go rinse out my brain with some My Little Pony...

Some more thoughts...

[penk.livejournal.com]

At the end of DwD - Varys brings about the demise of Kevan Lannister and Maester Luwin. We do however get a nice bit of 'monologuing' to steal a line from The Incredibles. It sure looks like Varys has been working to DESTABILIZE the seven kingdoms to deliberately make it possible for the return of the Targaryens. With Aegon and Daenerys alive and kicking, and dragons returned, is this just a world-changing plot by Varys?

Re: Some more thoughts...

[dr-memory.livejournal.com]

Well, it's certainly one of the current world-changing plots in play. And it's not a bad one, except that:

1. Varys, like everybody else including the readers (and possibly at this point GRRM) has no idea what the hell Littlefinger is planning. (As someone on another forum pointed out, in any scene where Littlefinger is not present, any character with any sense should be asking him or herself "Where is Littlefinger, and which person that I trust implicitly has he paid to have me assassinated?")

2. Perhaps more importantly, Varys (and whoever his co-conspirators are) seems to have no clue what is going on either at the Wall or out in Mereen. The sudden appearance of either an army of the undead or a bunch of dragons could easily throw a wrench into everybody's plans, and it seems likely that we're going to get both. My money is on Aegon Targaryan not making it to the end of the next book.

Re: Some more thoughts...

[dr-memory.livejournal.com]

(Also, Varys had better hope to hell he has some leverage over the new PopeHigh Septon: a suddenly well-armed church presiding over a mass religious revival among the peasantry could well have veto power over a sudden restoration of the Targaryan dynasty...)